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I think the author is focusing on the negatives! it sure was better than working for employers who don't give a care about their employees! Out of about a dozen work camping employers I only had problems with two compared to about 50% of the others I worked for!
I worked at the big warehouse for two holiday seasons. I'm not saying it was all strawberries and cream, but we were treated well. The tough old birds in their 40's to 70's+ were doing much better than most of the local college students they hired. It was good to hear the one who said that he played college sports and he couldn't understand how us "OLDSTERS" could do the work! I told him turning wrenches on heavy duty vehicles and others for 40+ years may have had something to do with it. Maybe three years of active duty inn the Army did too!
I also worked in an Amusement Park as a games attendant in the summer humidity. It was fun and we were treated well!
I will say this, This type of employ is mostly for people who have a retirement income or nest egg of finances. And if you go to Workamper News website, most will say the same. It is not something to depend on as a sole income!
She did as so many others and went out looking for facts to support the story she had previously chosen to write. In our 12 years as work-campers, we met only 1 couple who would fit into the story that she tells. I wonder if Jack Meyer has read this one? Or perhaps any of the other members of this forum who choose to work-camp? I don't believe that they qualify as poverty seniors.
When you intentionally distort facts as Jessica Bruder did, it is little different from telling a lie. Her story is more fiction than fact and we have been there.
She did as so many others and went out looking for facts to support the story she had previously chosen to write. In our 12 years as work-campers, we met only 1 couple who would fit into the story that she tells. I wonder if Jack Meyer has read this one? Or perhaps any of the other members of this forum who choose to work-camp? I don't believe that they qualify as poverty seniors.
When you intentionally distort facts as Jessica Bruder did, it is little different from telling a lie. Her story is more fiction than fact and we have been there.
Kirk, you have pretty much summed up my thoughts.
Kirk and wtmtnhiker, Agreed score me in your column.
Maybe she should write about some "oldsters" youth jobs and responsibilities.
There is no question in my mind that there is some percentage of the work campers who fit in the group the article is targeting.
Now saying that, should these people move out on the streets, living homeless on the streets or under the freeway overpasses?
I sounds like those who fell on hard times are making the best of the situation and living in an RV and travel for jobs.
There is no question in my mind that there is some percentage of the work campers who fit in the group the article is targeting.
I agree and have met a number of them in our travels since 2007. I think they are more likely to be devotees of Cheap RV Living than Escapees.
I wonder if Jack Meyer has read this one? Or perhaps any of the other members of this forum who choose to work-camp? I don't believe that they qualify as poverty seniors.
In my opinion based on my experience, the members of this forum and Escapees members are no more representative of retired fulltime RVers than the group described in the subject article. They are just at opposite ends of the spectrum. Most fall somewhere in the middle.
There are many people living the life portrayed. I am very surprised that you would call her a lair? She talked to the people, not you. What does the life that Jack lives have to do with what the author found? What facts did she distort? Kirk: you do exactly what you stated that the author does! I know that when you post it will be from a far right position and being a liberal myself, I will always respond to such foolish and unfounded post.
It sounds like someone was raised with all the necessities of life at her instant disposal. Never had to actually "WORK" for her living. She never actually worked at Amazon, just talked to folks probably at the end of their shift when they were tired. Did she do any questionnaire's? Before the job started and after it completed? Did she actually go Gate Guard in the oil fields or just talk to few that had their version of the life?
She's not the first or the last that view the RV generation as mostly poor pitiful degenerates....
There are many people living the life portrayed. I am very surprised that you would call her a lair?
First of all, he didn't call her a lair. He didn't even call her a LIAR.
What he said was that she appears to have had an agenda and went out in search of case studies to support that agenda.
I went to Amazon and read a short preview of the book. She uses a woman named Linda as her example for that chapter. That person makes $534 a month from Social Security and that is it. She also has to mooch lodging from people, eat their food, and generally admit that she is codependent and can't make it on her own. At 64. The writing is quite descriptive, down to the detail that Linda's old Jeep that pulls a 25 year old teardrop camper that has bald, cracking tires on it. This before a trip to some place in California that included a steep incline that includes twist and turns.
The setup for that drive included Linda picking her Jeep up at a mechanic shop, and then going to get the trailer, followed by a trip to the gas station. Now here is where I shook my head, almost to a level of disgust. In the narrative, the author casually mentions "Linda went inside to get her receipt and 2 packs of Marlboro Red 100s.
Okay, Linda. If I told you how you could have somewhere in the neighborhood of $225 more a month in your pocket, would you listen to the advice? Quit smoking.
HOW does anybody with NOTHING justify wasting 40% of their nothing on something as stupid as vices? And I would speculate that a lot of the people who live in 1986 vans, sleep on a board and poop into a pail waste a lot of what limited income they may have, then turn around and e-beg on youtube with their Patreon accounts. I had a neighbor who eventually was forced from their house because they didn't pay the mortgage for 30 months. They managed to buy a new SUV, a new Harley, have 2 little welfare babies, and every story started with "I was at the bar the other night..." Seems like the money they spent on smoking, drinking, the SUV and the Harley would have been sufficient to pay their mortgage. Some people are responsible and some aren't. (Get me started on gamblers who always have money for the casino but can't pay their mortgage or rent.)
Kirk mentioned that her subject matter was possibly more closely geared to the Cheap RV Living crowd, where it is some kind of absurd badge of courage to see how many suckers you can get to support you on Patreon because YOU didn't prepare for the future. And justify it by saying "Well I spend a lot of time editing videos!!" Um, dude, that is nothing more than playing with your computer all day. Get a freakin' job. A MEANINGFUL job that pays a real salary. You may have to skip the big rally over yonder for a few years, but you need money to do anything else. Now the rebuttal to that is usually how the economy is to blame and all of that kind of rationalization. Did I not live through that SAME economic downturn as everybody else? I lost a job to outsourcing too. I just worked hard at finding another one that actually paid a fair bit more.
Bob Wells, for all his willingness to share what is indeed a deep knowledge base with new users (and I laud him for that), puts out these videos where every 3rd word of the audio is "cheap". Well, cheap does not equal inexpensive. Do you want your Lasik surgery done by Cy the Eye Guy for $79 because it's cheap, or an opthalmic surgeon who will charge more but won't blind you? Do you want to buy cheap used tires for $35 each on which your $100,000 RV will ride or new ones on sale for $200? That is cheap vs inexpensive. (Remember, you don't have to wait until you need those tires to buy those tires when you find a good sale.)
I will buy her book but I will read it with an attitude of "Don't let this happen to you". And yes, I can sound a little snobby, but the day I have to poop into a bucket with a toilet seat, I hope one of my friends complies with my wishes and just shoots me.
Edited October 27, 2017 by eddie1261
She's not the first or the last that view the RV generation as mostly poor pitiful degenerates....
I just did a youtube video talking about the difference between aging and getting old. I will age one year at a time like everybody else, I refuse to get old. If i get to a point where my whole day revolves around getting the mail and then just sitting in a lawn chair and staring straight ahead, that is the day I stopped living and started existing. I know too many people in that first group. Some younger than me! Their life is over. They are just riding the bus until it runs out of gas now. Not me!
Edited October 27, 2017 by eddie1261
In my opinion based on my experience, the members of this forum and Escapees members are no more representative of retired fulltime RVers than the group described in the subject article. They are just at opposite ends of the spectrum. Most fall somewhere in the middle.
I guess that you and I will just have to disagree on this one. Escapees do have some folks with deep pockets, but there are also those at the other end of the spectrum. . We find Escapee members come from pretty much the entire economic spectrum.
What is the Average Retirement Income 2017 (Mean)? What is the Median Retirement Income 2017?
As you can see in the table below, median income is always lower and is probably closer to the reality for most households of retirement age.
You may have also noticed that average retirement income 2017 varies significantly by the age of the head of household. Household incomes decline the older they become.
Age of Household Median Income Mean Income Households Aged 55-64 $62,802 $89,986 Households Aged 65-74: $47,432 $68,905 Households Aged 75 and Older: $30,635 $45,989
SOURCE: Data is summarized from the US Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey(CPS) Annual Social and Economic (ASEC) Supplement. The CPS is a joint effort between the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.
Average Retirement Income 2017: How Do You Compare?
Edited October 27, 2017 by Kirk Wood
Of course their are people trying to live in an RV and make ends meet when they have a limited income. Of course there are many attempting to live in a S&B with very limited income. I don't see the issue... The book may be trying to make something out of nothing. I don't mean that those with limited income are nothing...just that unfortunately the author is trying to make it sound like these people work camping are somehow being abused???
I watched some youtube of her talking about this. Now I hope I can accurately portray the impression I got of her point of view on this, and to do so I will use an analogy.
Let's say for example that you are Michael Jordan. (This generation would use Lebron James.) And just for giggles, you decide to go out and watch a small college basketball team that is currently 1-16. Michael KNOWS he is not going to see anything remotely approaching what he calls basketball, so going in he has kind of a condescending view of the team he is going to see.
I found myself doing that on occasion with music. I was in REALLY good bands here in Cleveland, to a level where I'd walk into a place and strangers would come over to greet me and tell me how much they like my band. And to be honest I had some ego about it, to the point where I would listen to the band playing that night, doing the best they could do, and all through the set kept saying "We are SO much better than they are".
That is the impression I got after listening to her speak. She went to Amherst and Columbia for her degrees, both kind of exclusive, hoity toity schools. I get the feeling that she wanted to get into the van dweller community for the same reasons that kids sneak under the tent to get into the circus for free so they can see the animals and freaks inside. That's just how I felt, but it WAS how I felt.
There are many people living the life portrayed. I am very surprised that you would call her a lair? She talked to the people, not you. What does the life that Jack lives have to do with what the author found? What facts did she distort? Kirk: you do exactly what you stated that the author does! I know that when you post it will be from a far right position and being a liberal myself, I will always respond to such foolish and unfounded post.
Yep. About a year ago when Bruder published her Harper's The End of Retirement article (the basis for her book), the reaction here and on other forums was similar. Mostly along what Kirk said above.
People see what they want to see. It's why police separate witnesses, but can also be the basis for a good movie like the 1964 Western The Outrage.
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