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We were in one of our favorite local restaurants yesterday for lunch (Sunday). An older couple came in and were seated at the booth across from us. She was hauling a small canine in her arms and sat it on the booth seat beside her where it stayed while they ate.
My question is would this restaurant allow a human to sit bare butt on a booth seat? Or for that matter, would they allow bare human feet that had been walking outside in the grass to be in contact with a booth seat surface? How many times do you see a sign in the window of a restaurant that says "no shoes, no shirt, no service". Does the general public somehow believe that a canine's poop shoot and bare paws (feet) are cleaner and germ free compared to a human?
We were with friends from up north we hadn't seen in awhile, so we were in our seats much longer than the dog carrying couple. When they left the staff came over and cleaned off the table top but never cleaned where the dog sat. Nice for the next family that comes in and has their little 5 year old daughter sit there in her white Sunday church dress.
FL-JOE, haven't you realized that when it comes to pets, the whole country has gone stupid? If you go out in public, just learn to deal with it.
FL-JOE, haven't you realized that when it comes to pets, the whole country has gone stupid? If you go out in public, just learn to deal with it.
Ha . You think it only has to do with Pets ?
My question is would this restaurant allow a human to sit bare butt on a booth seat?
Probably. On Friday I watched someone change her baby's diaper in the booth right on the seat. And people cross their legs and put up their feet in booths all the time.
Ha . You think it only has to do with Pets ?
Not at all, but that was the subject of this thread. Good point.
The law as I understand it says that the animal MUST be a dog. No monkeys, birds, horses etc.
Yes, the ADA specifically uses "dog" when talking about it. ...
If a person has a non-dog that they claim under the ADA, they are lying.
Actually, service animals can also be miniature horses. The definition of "service animal" mentions only dogs, but a separate section says that the provisions apply to miniature horses, as well. See 28 C.F.R. §35.136(i).
So people who claim a miniature horse is a service animal are not necessarily lying.
You know how people are invited to comment on proposed laws? The government agencies address those comments in the Federal Register. In this case, you can download the pertinent portion of the Federal Register here. The discussion of miniature horses is interesting. It starts on page 56198, at the bottom of the middle column, with this:
Miniature horses. The Department has been persuaded by commenters and the available research to include a provision that would require public entities to make reasonable modifications to policies, practices, or procedures to permit the use of a miniature horse by a person with a disability if the miniature horse has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the individual with a disability.
I apologize if interjecting actual law, with citations, into the discussion is considered bad form. ?
FL-JOE, haven't you realized that when it comes to pets, the whole country has gone stupid? If you go out in public, just learn to deal with it.
Actually I'm not observing the whole country going stupid when it comes to pets. When we are in the Black Hills I seldom see folks hauling their dogs in restaurants and grocery stores. Same goes for the time we spend every summer in the Smokey mountains. I probably notice it more in Florida (in season) than any other place in the country.
Yesterday my buddy and I were busy at his campsite (corn hole & beer) when we noticed about 50 to 60 people exiting the community building at our CG. We didn't have a clue what meeting we may have just missed and hoped it wasn't something important. We asked and found out it was a meeting called to discuss issues involving pet owners not picking up after their pets in our CG, plus a secondary issue of someone placing dog crap on someone else's truck bumper!
Neither my buddy nor I have dogs, cats, snakes, gold fish, or small horses. We are the strange old guys that simply travel with their wives and no animals. We are rethinking that though because it now looks like we are being excluded from some group meetings!
I apologize if interjecting actual law, with citations, into the discussion is considered bad form.
LOL, I think facts are more important than anyone wanting to be "right." I have been going from the ADA's official site. Not shocking that one government branch would have a disconnect from another. You'd think there could be one source...
Not to get too deep into the weeds, but the deal with service dogs is that they can go pretty much any place the owner can go (can go into restaurants where dogs aren't allowed, but can't go into a swimming pool in a gym). The "rights" of service miniature horses aren't quite as broad as the "rights" of service animals. The fact sheet about the final version of the rule says, "The rule permits the use of trained miniature horses as alternatives to dogs, subject to certain limitations. To allow flexibility in situations where using a horse would not be appropriate, the final rule does not include miniature horses in the definition of 'service animal.'"
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/factsheets/title3_factsheet.html
It's a nuanced situation, and people don't do well with nuance. Just look what they've done with the latitude available for "emotional support animals." Contrary to what most people think, writing rules and laws is amazingly tricky because you have to include words that cover every contingency and loophole you can think of, and preferably, ones that you haven't thought of yet.
And people won't read more than a certain number of words, so you can't just refer them to the rule. So you have to distill it for them, and miniature horses won't matter to 99.9% of people reading about the rule, so if you include the horses in your distillation you run the risk of hitting the limit of words people will read, and they'll miss the part that does matter.
Basically, it's people who are the problem. As usual.
And where does horse start and dog end? I once saw a guy with a wheelchair pulling dog. It was a mastiff, around 175 pounds.
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