On 12/21/2016 at 1:51 AM, Paul Stough said:

 

So you dont believe that National Parks should charge anyone anything to use the Parks?

There are enough people that do that they have their own organization dedicated to tracking and opposing the public lands fee programs. They were the source that led Guy Gipson (publisher of the Escapees' Day's End Directory) to notify members regarding this legislation.

Edited December 21, 2016 by trailertraveler

  On 12/20/2016 at 12:09 PM, AquaDawg said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with inflation, and I think a few of you have totally missed the point.

 

As taxpayers we already own the all the federal land under federal management. After working hard all your life and paying your taxes, upon retirement the government rewards you by charging you to enter the lands that you, the taxpayer, already own.

 

And most people using the Senior Pass are using it to receive half off the campground fee at USFS campgrounds. Campgrounds that used to be free when we were younger.

 

National Parks is just an afterthought.

 

But hey, if you think the feds need more of your money, by all means feel free to make a donation to their coffers, but don't come out and say all retirees need to pony up on the lands they already own.

Well I noticed a spot in the ceiling at the bookstore in the Grand Tetons NP where it looks like the roof is leaking. Since you say WE already own it, then which one of US is responsible for the roof of that building? I'd like to ask when they plan to fix it.

We both know that tax money alone isn't enough so exactly how do you propose to fix that roof? And what about the guy being paid to fix that roof? After all he pays taxes too so he basically is being paid, with tax money, to fix his own roof, since he owns the building. Where do I get in on that deal?

Of course the solution is very simple. If you think $80 is too much to pay, then don't pay it. I don't own a Ferrari, because I think $200,000 is too much to pay just for a car. That is the beautiful thing about this country, no one can force me to buy a Ferrari, and no one is forcing you to go to a National Park. Try Disney instead. I hear that a full hook-up site at Fort Wilderness runs about $100 a NIGHT. Lets see, you could stay there for around $3000 for a month. Now you could go during the hot summer months, the rate drops to about $70 a night so that's only $2100 for the month. A much better deal, if you don't mind the heat.

Or you could go to the Everglades NP in Florida for $80 for the LIFEtime pass and the $15 a night campground fee (that's half price for senior pass holders). That comes to $450 for the month...and that one time $80 fee. Hmmm.....

  On 12/20/2016 at 11:56 PM, Pat & Pete said:

 

I probably wouldn't be saying anything if the pass increase was only that of inflation . Dutch has it at $18.47 . Worth it or not , 80 dollars is a long stretch from 18.47 .

Hey, I like that calculator. It says I should I should be able to sell my house for a whole lot more than that realtor says. Of course it also says that gasoline should be cheaper than it is too.

If paying an extra $70 for a LIFETIME pass means that the NP's will still be there for my grandkids I'm all for it. The pass was steal at $10 for a lifetime pass. Like I said in my first post, if you think you can find a better deal than $80 for your lifetime go there instead. Cut out one steak dinner for you and the wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend and it's paid for, for LIFE.

I decided to look into the potential impact of this proposal on the financial state of the National Park System. The deferred maintenance backlog as of 2015 was $11.927 Billion dollars. Using census birth records for 1955 (about 4 million) and Social Security estimates of those reaching 62 years of age through 2030 (estimated at 10,000/day or 3.65 million/year); if 4 million people a year bought a Senior Lifetime Pass that would be $320 million in revenue per year for the Park Service. At that rate, it would take 37+ years to fund the 2015 deferred maintenance backlog, longer if everyone turning 62 does not buy a pass.

It appears that the final legislation did not contain the additional up to 5% fee on lodging in the parks which most likely would have far exceeded the increased revenue from the Senior Pass fee increase.

In my opinion, this is nothing more than feel good legislation for the Park Service centennial.

Big5er - my sentiments exactly! I really can't believe that $80/lifetime is looked upon as being so horrendous that no one can afford it. We've used our pass for a lot of things - like taking family to Mt. St. Helens, Mr. Rainer, etc. Heck, at $80/yr it is a good bargain even if you only use it once a vacation. To be able to use it year after year after year, it is unbelievable. Just one week at a COE park would pay for the one-time fee, then it is all savings the rest of your life.

  On 12/21/2016 at 9:24 AM, Barbaraok said:

...I really can't believe that $80/lifetime is looked upon as being so horrendous that no one can afford it...

An opinion not shared by some on this forum.

  On 12/7/2016 at 11:53 PM, LindaH said:

Maybe not for *most,* but for a lot of people it would be a hardship, particularly if it's going to be *each year* instead of a one-time fee. I'm just glad we have ours! (Of course, Congress could also include a passage that current Senior Passes won't be good anymore.)

Edited December 21, 2016 by TCW

Even at $80/yr, I would consider the pass to be worthwhile - it would pay for itself in a week or two at any COE park! But where did someone get the idea it would be a yearly fee for seniors?

There is a provision in the new fee schedule for an annual senior pass at $20/yr. But if you buy one four years in a row, you qualify for the lifetime pass at no additional charge.

  On 12/21/2016 at 12:15 PM, Dutch_12078 said:

There is a provision in the new fee schedule for an annual senior pass at $20/yr. But if you buy one four years in a row, you qualify for the lifetime pass at no additional charge.

Hey that makes sense too. How long can that last.

I get that for most of us $80. is no big deal but for some it may be all at once. Remember that not all users are going to be for camping. Some places it is just a daily fee or an annual or lifetime pass. For me, I would just as soon lay out the whole $80. from the first. Some people live near parks they can use and some may have to tavel hundreds of miles to use their Federal recreation site so it might not seem as good a deal to them.

One thing that troubles me is I know that the folks we elect will use this as an offset to put tax money somewhere else. You can only cut personnel and funding so much and expect to keep facilities anywhere near kept up.

At my local airport our tie-downs went from $70 to $130 / mo. They had a meeting where people could voice their comments. My partner went to tell me about all the people bitching about it. $6/gallon fuel, $1200 annual inspections, $150 oil change / 50 hrs. no problem. An extra 60/mo. for all those TSA fences and locks... wah, wah, wah!

Since I already have the lifetime pass is it still good

Dave